Monday, September 04, 2006

DEBATE

or **Ahhh if you're going to debate me on my own blog at least don't do it anonymously...**

Here's my original post: and her comment but I'll post her comment here and comment on it too..

It is a tenant of international law that when a government commits major human rights violations against a specific sect of its own population that government is responsible for her citizens repair -- or the synonym: REPARATIONS.

140 years ago? Was Jim Crow 140 years ago? Was Martin Luther King assassinated 140 years ago? Were black people attacked with POLICE DOGS and FIREMEN WATER HOSES 140 years ago? Was SEGREGATION, LYNCHING, BLACK CODES, KKK, ROSA PARKS AND THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT 140 years ago? When you "teach" your children, try the truth for once. You like many white Americans are protected by this blanket of denial in America and it is absolutely appalling.

No one is suggesting personal culpability. Slavery was an institution sanctioned by the highest laws of the land with a degree of support from the Constitution itself.

For two hundred years, the federal government embraced
made laws and embraced policies that supported racism after the Civil War and the passage of the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments. Because of racist laws and policies after slavery, blacks were denied the chance to compete or the opportunities and resources that were available to native whites and
white immigrants. The promise of forty acres and a mule to former slaves were effectively nullified by the actions of Pres. Andrew Johnson.

For example, immediately after the war Congress restructured laws to constrain newly freed black men and women called Black Codes. Blacks were barred from towns after certain hours and were prevented from renting or leasing farms. Under Jim Crow, many "Black males were expected to tip their
hats in the presence of whites, even if they were walking on the
opposite side of the street." The Codes were implemented in the late nineteenth century and, unfortunately, lasted until the 1960s.

From Black Codes, Jim Crow, KKK to lynchings the United States government sanctioned and upheld these oppressive and exploitative systems to the detriment of its newly freed African slaves. The United States had officially committed itself to civil and political rights for blacks.

However, it failed to enforce those rights intended in the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments. African Americans were betrayed, and a brutal white supremacist regime was allowed to replace chattel slavery.

Thus the federal government is reasonably held accountable for the persisting legacy of those wrongs.


The institution of slavery established the idea and the practice that American democracy was "for whites only." The government is an entity that survives generations, its debts and obligation survive the lifespan of any particular individuals...There are many white Americans whose actions (or lack thereof) reveal such sentiments today--witness the response of the media and the general populace to the blatant disregard of African Americans in New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina. Would such complacency exist if African Americans were considered "real citizens"?

What about the disenfranchisement of Black citizens in the 2000 election? And despite the dramatic successes of the Civil Rights movement of the 1950s and 60s, the majority of black Americans do not enjoy the same rights as white Americans in the economic sphere.

The injury in question--that of slavery--was inflicted upon a people designated as a race. The descendants of that people--still socially constructed as a race today--continue to suffer the institutional
legacies of slavery some one hundred thirty-five years after its demise.

Race cannot be separated from said injury because wrongs were inflicted on sole basis of one's skin color.

For example, the criminal (in)justice system today largely continues to operate as it did under slavery--for the
protection of white citizens against black "outsiders." Although no longer written law, this very attitude is implicit to processes of law enforcement,
prosecution, and incarceration, guiding the behavior of police, prosecutors, judges, juries, wardens, and parole boards. Hence, African Americans continue to experience higher rates of incarceration than do whites charged with similar crimes, endure longer sentences for the same classes of crimes perpetrated by whites, and, compared to white inmates, receive far less
consideration by parole boards when being considered for release.

The fact that immigrants arrived after slavery has no bearing on the call for restitution as anyone who seeks to benefit from the priviliges set forth in this nation must also accept her battles as is expected of any other American citizen.

Thus, anyone who immigrates to the United States American citizenship inherits America fight for freedom.
We don't ask new immigrants to re-fight the War of 1812, nor do we require them re-write to the Bill of Rights.
Yet they are beneficiaries of that history. New immigrants also inherit the bad with the good. They inherit all the responsibilities of every American citizen no matter how long they have been here, no matter where they came from or why, without regard to their race, creed, color, religion, gender, sexual preference or other distinction.

The arguments for reparations are not made on the basis of whether every white person directly gained from slavery. It's addressing crimes by government against a people.


Once the wrongs committed against African Americans are recognized as constituting a claim that creates a property right cognizable under our legal system what remedy is appropriate? Many argue that current generations have no responsibility, because none of us ever held slaves.

Again, the arguments are made on the basis that slavery was
institutionalized and protected by the law in the United States.

Yes, its true that many Americans have immigrated recently to the United States and many others are descendants of immigrants who arrived after the Civil War.

Human Rights Watch recently issued a report stating that the US should pay reparations not only for slavery, but for segregation, too. No mention is made in the Human Rights Report of the one hundred years of lynchings to which Black people in America were subjected.

Today the vestiges of racial discrimination, which began during the days of black race hatred and slavery, are still visible.

Black women and men are haunted by the reality that "Driving While Black" in many states makes you a prime target for police harassment. In the state of New Jersey, at least eight of every ten automobile searches carried out by state troopers on the New Jersey Turnpike over most of the last decade were conducted on vehicles driven by blacks and Hispanics. 80% of the stops, yet only 30% of the population. This is racial profiling at its worst. But New Jersey is not the only Driving While Black culprit.


The Justice Department admits that blacks are more likely than whites to be pulled over by police, imprisoned, and put to death. And, though blacks and whites have about the same rate of drug use, blacks are more likely to be arrested than whites and are more likely to receive longer prison sentences than whites.

The expiration of critical sections of the Voting Rights Act could very well usher in a return of state-sanctioned black disfranchisement on a scale worse than what was discovered in the 2000 November Presidential election.

As you can see, the US is far from having adequately addressed its race problem. In addition, I believe the United States is in long-standing violation of international treaties that it has signed and ratified.


The United States could and should also apologize for its participation in the slave trade and the long history of racism against black people that that participation fostered and supported. Governments make restitution to victims as a group or class. It is true that it would be inappropriate to pursue individual guilt at this point, but the collective responsibility of our government cannot be denied.

No one is suggesting personal culpability. Slavery was an institution sanctioned by the highest laws of the land with a degree of support from the Constitution itself.

The institution of slavery established the idea and the practice that American democracy was "for whites only." The government is an entity that survives generations, its debts and obligation survive the lifespan of any particular individuals...There are many white Americans whose actions (or lack thereof) reveal such sentiments today--witness the response of the media and the general populace to the blatant disregard of African Americans in New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina. Would such complacency exist if African Americans were considered "real citizens"?

What about the disenfranchisement of Black citizens in the 2000 election? And despite the dramatic successes of the Civil Rights movement of the 1950s and 60s, the majority of black Americans do not enjoy the same rights as white Americans in the economic sphere.

The injury in question--that of slavery--was inflicted upon a people designated as a race. The descendants of that people--still socially constructed as a race today--continue to suffer the institutional
legacies of slavery some one hundred thirty-five years after its demise.

Race cannot be separated from said injury because wrongs were inflicted on sole basis of one's skin color.

For example, the criminal (in)justice system today largely continues to operate as it did under slavery--for the
protection of white citizens against black "outsiders." Although no longer written law, this very attitude is implicit to processes of law enforcement,
prosecution, and incarceration, guiding the behavior of police, prosecutors, judges, juries, wardens, and parole boards. Hence, African Americans continue to experience higher rates of incarceration than do whites charged with similar crimes, endure longer sentences for the same classes of crimes perpetrated by whites, and, compared to white inmates, receive far less
consideration by parole boards when being considered for release.

The fact that immigrants arrived after slavery has no bearing on the call for restitution as anyone who seeks to benefit from the priviliges set forth in this nation must also accept her battles as is expected of any other American citizen.

Thus, anyone who immigrates to the United States American citizenship inherits America fight for freedom.
We don't ask new immigrants to re-fight the War of 1812, nor do we require them re-write to the Bill of Rights.
Yet they are beneficiaries of that history. New immigrants also inherit the bad with the good. They inherit all the responsibilities of every American citizen no matter how long they have been here, no matter where they came from or why, without regard to their race, creed, color, religion, gender, sexual preference or other distinction.

The arguments for reparations are not made on the basis of whether every white person directly gained from slavery. It's addressing crimes by government against a people.

For two hundred years, the federal government embraced
made laws and embraced policies that supported racism after the Civil War and the passage of the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments. Because of racist laws and policies after slavery, blacks were denied the chance to compete or the opportunities and resources that were available to native whites and
white immigrants. The promise of forty acres and a mule to former slaves were effectively nullified by the actions of Pres. Andrew Johnson.

For example, immediately after the war Congress restructured laws to constrain newly freed black men and women called Black Codes. Blacks were barred from towns after certain hours and were prevented from renting or leasing farms. Under Jim Crow, many "Black males were expected to tip their
hats in the presence of whites, even if they were walking on the
opposite side of the street." The Codes were implemented in the late nineteenth century and, unfortunately, lasted until the 1960s.

From Black Codes, Jim Crow, KKK to lynchings the United States government sanctioned and upheld these oppressive and exploitative systems to the detriment of its newly freed African slaves. The United States had officially committed itself to civil and political rights for blacks.

However, it failed to enforce those rights intended in the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments. African Americans were betrayed, and a brutal white supremacist regime was allowed to replace chattel slavery.

Thus the federal government is reasonably held accountable for the persisting legacy of those wrongs.

Once the wrongs committed against African Americans are recognized as constituting a claim that creates a property right cognizable under our legal system what remedy is appropriate? Many argue that current generations have no responsibility, because none of us ever held slaves.

Again, the arguments are made on the basis that slavery was
institutionalized and protected by the law in the United States.

Yes, its true that many Americans have immigrated recently to the United States and many others are descendants of immigrants who arrived after the Civil War.

Human Rights Watch recently issued a report stating that the US should pay reparations not only for slavery, but for segregation, too. No mention is made in the Human Rights Report of the one hundred years of lynchings to which Black people in America were subjected.

Today the vestiges of racial discrimination, which began during the days of black race hatred and slavery, are still visible.

Black women and men are haunted by the reality that "Driving While Black" in many states makes you a prime target for police harassment. In the state of New Jersey, at least eight of every ten automobile searches carried out by state troopers on the New Jersey Turnpike over most of the last decade were conducted on vehicles driven by blacks and Hispanics. 80% of the stops, yet only 30% of the population. This is racial profiling at its worst. But New Jersey is not the only Driving While Black culprit.


The Justice Department admits that blacks are more likely than whites to be pulled over by police, imprisoned, and put to death. And, though blacks and whites have about the same rate of drug use, blacks are more likely to be arrested than whites and are more likely to receive longer prison sentences than whites.

The expiration of critical sections of the Voting Rights Act could very well usher in a return of state-sanctioned black disfranchisement on a scale worse than what was discovered in the 2000 November Presidential election.

As you can see, the US is far from having adequately addressed its race problem. In addition, I believe the United States is in long-standing violation of international treaties that it has signed and ratified.


The United States could and should also apologize for its participation in the slave trade and the long history of racism against black people that that participation fostered and supported. Governments make restitution to victims as a group or class. It is true that it would be inappropriate to pursue individual guilt at this point, but the collective responsibility of our government cannot be denied.

--
Posted by Zion to Diary of a Mad Crazy Mom Type at 9/04/2006 05:44:44 AM



Zion apparently just found something I posted WAY back in July and felt the need to "educate" me on the suffering of blacks..I never said blacks DIDN'T suffer--now AGAIN what I believe...it has been 140 years....the United States should not apologize to the "black community" for their part in the slave trade...the ONLY way we as a nation are going to be able to move on and become one people with EACH OTHER is to stop fighting PAST wars!!!!! This didn't happen to YOU. As for your implication I don't "teach" my children right...Oh but I do..I teach my children to look BEYOND the color of a person..maybe you should TRY that...might work better in life for EVERYONE. My husband is in the UNITED STATES MILITARY and amazingly enough..they don't have problems with color/race relations..maybe because they have something else to think about/consider other than something that happened to them or their people --again 140 years ago--they think about..oh keeping everyone in AMERICA SAFE...not apologizing to one particular race for something that happened 140 years ago...

NOW onto the getting pulled over because your black and in New Jersey...seriously take that up with the New Jersey police department not the United States Government...

New Orleans...now when watching coverage of Hurricane Katrina...the mayor of New Orleans was Black right?? because he was making a hell of a lot of the decisions...so maybe we need to focus on him a little too..It wasn't a "white conspiracy" against the black people...I like probably half of America (oh wait that'a whole bunch of white people) sat and cried thinking of those people in New Orleans..but you know what I DO think if it was WHITE people the same would've happened...and the SAME OUTCRY...YOU DID watch the news as MOST OF AMERICA WAS pissed at the way it's CITIZENS were treated--notice I didn't use the word BLACK CITIZENS just CITIZENS that's because they didn't care who it was..they were AMERICANS...

PICK up your American flag and become and American and be happy you live here..if you don't like it or the way you are treated try another country BUT I DAMN WELL GUARANTEE YOU--you'll come back..it's only here you get the freedom speech to even question the government and ask for them to apologize to you...Like I said the ONLY way we are going to be a COUNTRY OF ONE to steal the Army's slogan...is to become ONE and that's to stop fighting as blacks and whites and fight as AMERICANS...

2 comments:

Jennifer Cammarota (Becky's sister) said...

that's one way to put it....one of my best friend's is black and you know what, we have discussions about the differences in our races, but we remain friends! we do not, take everything seriously, we see each other as support and love each other as friends should! you see, for all hearts beat the same and our blood is red. that's all that matters to me.

to put the discrimination question to you...hoave you ever been the victim of direct discrimination? i have and i'm white! i was a freshman in high school when it happened. having just moved here from a DODS school, overseas, my eyes were opened like you wouldn't believe! i had never, before that incident, been treated like that in my life! and i will not let anyone treat anyone else that way.

we all need to move past the color of our skin. we need to look at the quality of our heart.

Toni said...

Oh dear Lord!! People need to get over the "race" issues! Can't find anything to bitch about? bitch about race! I have other, more meaningful issues to focus on.... Take care B